We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum. A.W. Tozer
Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth. --Basil of Caesarea
Once you learn to discern, there's no going back. You will begin to spot the lie everywhere it appears.

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service. 1 Timothy 1:12

Thursday, July 30, 2015

Random Aberrations, Apostasies, and Heresies

Horrible news this morning.  Thrivent Financial Services, which is the financial services for Lutherans (LCMS, ELCA, and WELS) has been funding Planned Parenthood!!!! [link gone by 7/14/18]  I’ve used Thrivent for life insurance for almost 30 years (from when we were still Lutherans, and it was originally Aid Association for Lutherans), and still have 12 years left on my policy.  I’m sort of stuck, since I can’t afford to start a new life policy at my age, but it you are participating in Thrivent and are able to drop them, do so!

The United Methodist Church General Board of Church & Society still thinks abortion is okay is some circumstances, [link gone by 7/14/18] yet the circumstances they claim have been denied to exist for the most part by the medical field.  They talk of “reproductive justice” as if it is “justice” to murder the unborn.  Oh, they have the same lies and excuses promoted by the “pro-choice” (pro-abortion) crowd, so why do they claim to have a Christian view?  They are just like Democrats with a platform promoting “access to modern contraception” — as if there is anyone without access to contraception? (Like don’t have sex?)  And of course there is that demand for sex indoctrination in the government school system.  The UMC leadership has no concept of the value of life.  Apostasy, pure and simple.

Elizabeth Prata has a pretty good article about modern mystics who have “visions” from God; you know who they are— the “usual suspects.”  She also has a good article about the right kind of Jesus to worship, and He isn’t the sissified boyfriend version so many false teachers promote.

More supposed Christian colleges bow to the homosexualists.  Two Mennonite colleges will now employ “married” homosexuals (which is an oxymoron, since two people of the same sex aren’t married).  More apostasy.

Neil explains the problem with “affirming churches” — those who think we should forget that homosexual behavior is a sin.  It is really amazing how many “Christians” are  apostatizing FOR homosexuality!  Why don’t they do the same for fornication and divorce and adultery and prostitution, etc?  OH, wait, they already did!  Which is how homosexuality left Pandora’s box.

Mormons are always trying to get real Christians to “pray” about the Book of Mormon so we will supposedly get a “burning in the bosom” from the “Holy Ghost” telling us it is true.  But should anyone pray about the BOM?  Of course not; and here’s why.

Joe Kovacs is an editor at Joseph Farah’s World Net Daily, a Christian Internet news source, but he is also a promoter of the teachings of heretic Herbert W. Armstrong.  The problem is that WND has long promoted Kovac’s books, which mislead many who follow the site.  In 2012 The Berean Call reported on the situation, and reports now that there is no improvement in that WND still promotes Kovac’s material.  A sad thing is that when Joseph Farah was alerted this week by James Kieferdorf, Farah’s response was to denigrate The Berean Call and claiming the issue is just “guilt by association”!  Then he pulled the old “follow Matthew 18” for charges, which, of course is abusing that passage.  What is the problem with these media people that they can’t just acknowledge that they’ve erred in promoting false teaching they were unaware of?!?  So be careful of theology you find at World Net Daily!

Hip and Thigh has part 2 of their review of “Which Bible Would Jesus Use”?  Very interesting stuff, demonstrating the lengths to which KJV Onlyers will go to stand by their cultic teachings.

Lastly, Doug has an excellent article summarizing the history and some of the false teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist cult.


Neil said...

So glad I left the pro-abortion UMC!

I quit reading WND a while back. They have some good stuff, but it is usually picked up elsewhere. And they are off on their facts at times, so I'm never confident in what they say.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I also dropped WND long ago, for the very same reasons.

Diane Schultz said...

Ben Carson, one of the 2016 Republican presidential candidates, is a Seventh Day Adventist. I supported him until I found out.

Doug Evans said...

That's a bit of a shock about Thrivent, I too used their services when I was a "Prairie Lootrin", but then they are a financial institution and fully entrenched in this world. Their involvement with Molech had to be political back scratching without even a thought of the genocide they were financing.

Anonymous said...

"I’m sort of stuck, since I can’t afford to start a new life policy at my age, but it you are participating in Thrivent and are able to drop them, do so!"

So you are going to continue to fund killing babies on a life insurance policy that you may or may not be able to collect?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Diane,

Well, I don't worry so much about their theological beliefs when it comes to politics, unless their worldview is against a fundamental Christian worldview, which with SDA wouldn't be the case. After all, all those professing "Christians" politicians don't practice their faith most of the time anyway, and many are Roman Catholic. I only address it when they claim to be representative of the Christian faith.

As for Carson, as great as his conservative ideas are, he really has no experience to be a President.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Look, every product you buy is supporting abortion or the homosexual agenda in some manner. You really can't get around it. Go shopping at any big box store, whether Wal-Mart or Target or Lowes or Menards, etc, and you are providing funding for the homosexual agenda, sexual immorality, same-sex fake marriage, etc. So don't get all high-horse.

The majority of Thrivent's money goes into proper places. My life insurance is a term insurance, so unless I die in the next 12 years my wife will not collect from it. I need the insurance to provide her financial security -- essentially so the house will be paid and she can live off my annuity. I got it when I was younger and it is cheap. I cannot afford a policy anywhere close to it at my age. So you'd have me leave my wife without financial security because Thrivent began spending some money to Planned Parenthood? If I had known they would do that I would have purchased differently, but I cannot undo the purchase, and I cannot afford to leave my wife uninsured. Perhaps you are more wealthy and are able to do that, but I am not.

Anonymous said...

Good point Glenn, about not being able to get around supporting worldly agendas, I don't believe in boycotting for those reasons, in fact it would probably be impossible. But by the same logic leaving Thrivent (if one could) wouldn't help either, the other product would probably support it even more. I should get a shorter horse.

castiron said...

I've often wondered about the burning in the bosom to test the Book of Mormon. (Half my family is Mormon, so I've been around tons of missionaries...my Mormon family keeps sending them my way). A lot of Christians joke that is is just heartburn but I think it's more insidious, perhaps a demon. I do think the rituals the members do in their temples are spiritual traps that put them in bondage.

Anonymous said...

Glenn, Back on my high-horse a little, you advised people to get out of Thrivent, and yet you stay in, ostensibly killing babies for an annuity for your wife.

Something seems amiss.

Shouldn't we put our money, or lack of, where our mouth is?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Did you notice that I said IF YOU ARE ABLE to drop them?

Look, just how much of my money do you think they are sending to PP? How about you refuse to pay your taxes because one heck of a lot more of that money is going to PP!

And it isn't an annuity for my wife - my annuity is my retirement. It is so the house will be paid so she can LIVE on my annuity, which will be less than half of what I get now. I find her security more important than the minuscule amount of MY premium which might go to PP.

So put YOUR money where your mouth is and don't buy anything made in China, because we know the forced abortions taking place there.

Anonymous said...


Thank-you for exposing the Lutheran Financial Services supporting the abortion sin, but it comes as no surprise to me. Years ago, when I was unsaved and became pregnant out of wedlock, the LORD placed Christians in my path to minister to me, and loving me enough to not have an abortion. There were some fantastic opportunities awaiting me at that particular time in my life and I had to give up all of them if I allowed that child to be born.

Thankfully, these unchurched, 501c. 3, believers and followers of Christ prayed for me, my baby, and did not condemn me of my sin, but God did a miracle and moved me within my soul in doing what was right in His eyes. I married, birthed a beautiful baby, and became saved by Jesus, the Christ, seven years later.

Our family had the opportunity to have a retired Lutheran pastor and his wife visit our home while our children were still babies. I posed this question to the two of them and said, "When you look into the eyes of a baby, it becomes difficult to imagine that anyone could believe in abortion (they did not know that I even considered aborting my own baby)."

And these Lutheran leaders (retired pastor and wife) responded with, "Oh, abortion has its place." I was left speechless. And after they left our home, in the quiet, private moments with our LORD, I prayed and thanked and praised Him for not sending people such a those when I seriously considered doing away with the life that was growing inside of me. And to this day, I am humbled and in awe of just how merciful and gracious our LORD is, for although unsaved at the time of my crucial decision, He still loved and cared for me, a wretched sinner, enough to send true, born again Christ followers to witness the saving grace of Jesus.

How great and glorious is our LORD! Praise the Holy Name of Jesus.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Anonymous,

You didn't say what "brand" of Lutherans you were dealing with. I expect such from the ELCA, but would be surprised if it was by LCMS. Which is why it is surprising that Thrivent allowed it, since LCMS is part of the group.

Anonymous said...

The religious "flavor" I left long ago was in fact ELCA, although since researching the actual penned writings of Martin Luther, he had some great doctrines and yet there is reason for concern regarding his utter hatred of the Jewish people of his day. Plus the fact Luther did not entirely eliminate all of the false teachings of his former Roman Catholic upbringing.

It is a sad in religion when pastors and their wives condone and promote abortion and it is difficult for me to even call them sheep let alone shepherds. And you are right, all of us support this horrible act against mankind in some way, shape or form for we probably don't even know the half of it. God forgive us.

"The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want."

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Luther's anti-Jewish ideology really just stemmed from Roman Catholicism's teachings of the day. And, you are so correct- Luther held on to too much Romanism.

My wife grew up in the LCMS, and since I was a fairly new believer when we married (2 1/2 years) and hadn't gone to church since leaving the Army 18 months earlier (I was working Sundays), we married in her family church. After we were married for 12 years I finally got Sundays off and we began worshipping at an LCMS church. I found them to be pretty fundamental, which was a relief, but I totally disagreed with baptismal regeneration and consubstantiation. After a bit over 7 years with the LCMS and tiring of tradition over Scripture, we began attending Bible churches.

Of course over the years I saw similarities between Lutheranism and Calvinism - both kept too much from Romanism. Still, there are some really good LCMS teachers when it comes to basic theology, so as long as you know where the mines are, you can step through the fields. But with ELCA, the mines cover the fields leaving no place to step.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Glen, very true. What I have found incredibly interesting is the fact that so much emphasis is placed on baptism, infant baptism. After years of hearing "we must get that baby baptized so they will go to heaven," just could not take it any more and had to say something amongst extended family members. We were all taught a gigantic lie and since none of us at that time never read our Bibles, we relied upon the teachings of our pastor and those in leadership. Funny thing Glen, all throughout those ELCA Lutheran years, I cannot recall anyone from the pastor on down the leadership line ever saying "To fully know and understand our LORD God Almighty, you must read the Bible for yourself." The church was dead silent on such an important living saving issue.

Just a few days ago an older woman who has strong faith in Jesus, visited my table and we had such a nice visit. And still her emphasis was on baptism (she too was re-baptized following her conversion as our family was), and doing good deeds to prove one is in Christ. And yet, the Holy Spirit was there as we reminisced the great and wonderful story of those wretched thieves on those trees beside our Savior. The one thief spewing mockery from his lips/heart at our LORD, all the while the other, defending the honor and glory of our King, fully realizing exactly who He was and is and is to come. And Jesus responded to that horrible sinner with "you will be with me in Paradise." No baptism or good works necessary at that moment in time.

And the amazing thing here Glen, is this, when the Bible clearly and lovingly speaks for itself, with no human intervention what so ever, neither of us (my elderly Christian woman friend nor myself), could become offended to the point of arguing the matter which so often happens within our churches and small groups. The clear Word of God speaks unity and agape love......and those are NOT hippie words! Laugh now.

Thanks Glen, for all of your work and responses. They minister to my faith, my heart, and my country marriage/lifestyle. So very thankful, we are children of our LORD, for I can boast in Christ alone.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

One of the things that set us to leaving the LCMS was the insane idea of infant baptism bringing salvation. The pastor told us that aborted babies went to hell because they were not baptized, and suffered for the sins of the parents. I can't accept such nonsense -- it makes God into an evil ogre.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm just doing my best to honor the Lord where He put me. :)

Shawn Schrader said...

I'm a non-lutheran who works for Thrivent. The funds that are provided come from the Thrivent Foundation, not the company. The foundation matches employee donations to all 501(c)3 orgs. For all of you who think this is a simple issue probably haven't been in leadership of a large and diverse organization. Nothing's as simple as the author of this piece makes it and as such most people fall into the trap of not seeing that there's more here. Thrivent is a 501(c)8 tax-exempt organization. We can't discriminate in our hiring or other areas such as where those people want to give. We can control where we send the tax-exempt (fraternal) dollars. And Thrivent refuses to send funds to controversial activist centered organizations like planned parenthood. So if you want to buy into the low-informed points found by some on this blog, feel free. I'm sure it makes you feel better, but it doesn't make it accurate.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


So my blog has "low-informed points"? Here is the original I've linked through to:

Are you disputing this information?

I don't want to hear all the corporate excuses. IT doesn't fly.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Oh, and here is the link to the Lutheran Church statement on the issue. But I guess they are "low-informed points" also?


Anonymous said...

I don't speak for the "corporation" I only speak for myself. If abortion was available when I was concevied I would have most certainly been terminated. I've done quite a bit of work with post-abortion groups and more than happy to share my activity in opposition to this horible genocide. With that said, be careful about getting personal and taking comments too personal Glenn. You and I are on the same page so just know that I agree with you, but you have a research gap taking place. The articles you are referring to were in response to a nomination that Thrivent received to support planned parenthood. Initially it was authorized. Then the company rescinded the authorization and never gave funds to that affiliate. That's old news Glenn and well worn rhetoric from some Lutherans that don't really like Thrivent. Keep the fight up, but be open to input.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I'm definitely open to correct. And it doesn't matter how old the news is (1 year), since the point is that it was done and never should have been done. The article with the Lutheran statement says it WAS done, the funds WERE given. So your dispute isn't with me, rather it is with the article I linked to. If I can't trust the Lutheran statement, then what can I trust?

Andrew Bolin said...
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Andrew Bolin said...
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Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Baptism does NOT provide salvation. It is NOT necessary for salvation. That whole baptismal regeneration teaching came through Romanism.



The Bible does NOT say John had faith in Jesus, only that he recognized that he was there. Watch out for eisegesis.