We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum. A.W. Tozer
Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth. --Basil of Caesarea
Once you learn to discern, there's no going back. You will begin to spot the lie everywhere it appears.

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service. 1 Timothy 1:12

Wednesday, February 22, 2017

Random Things Needing Discernment

Cru, aka Campus Crusade for Christ, is now financing and promoting abject heresy!!!

On thing that is proof you have a goat-herd leading your “church” is that he will focus on sex to attract more goats with titillation.  Here’s another example.

“IF” Gatherings — spreading false teachings like wildfire.

Really, really beware of the false prophet/teacher Jennifer LeClaire.

If your church leaders attend the C3 conference, you need to find another church.

Another article about tithing, for use the next time your church says Christians are supposed to tithe.

The Real Tim Keller.  Can you say “false teacher”?

Catholics and their worship of Mary as another god.

The continuing saga about apostate Clayton Jennings.  The guy just doesn’t quit his nastiness.  Ah, but his female fans virtually worship him.

The Berean Examiner has continued the series of testimonies by those who have left the NAR.  Just browse the site.

Let’s see, a “Christian” establishment is helping Muslims to worship their pagan god?

Matt Chandler and his Village Church are to be avoided; discernment there is lacking.

Another poor CCM song examined.

More proof that the United Church of Christ is a totally apostate organization.

A reminder about what goes on at The World Race.

Dave Ramsey should stick with financial advise and leave the Bible alone.


Anonymous said...

Wow, this was quite the roundup.

Cru - not shocked, considering they dropped Jesus's name from their organization's name.

Sermons on s*x - wasn't that an early red flag about Driscoll, if my memory serves me correctly? Along with his irreverence in his books... I think he wrote one in which he called Jesus a kleptomaniac. Sad that it took the crash and burn of Mars Hill for many to finally see how unqualified he had always been (despite decade long trail of red flags). Though some today still think it is ok that he is a pastor!

C3 - the philosophy of "putting on a show to draw a crowd" truly is what they are doing, though they won't admit it, whether it's these idiotic conferences, or churches that make their sanctuaries look like entertainment venues. This truly is the age of Laodicea, all the churches think they are great and doing mighty things for God, but Christ is outside the door, knocking, telling them they are wretched.

Tithing / deliverance articles - good; both practices bring bondage.

And of course, the "big name" preachers keep falling, one by one. Sad. Hence why the church should not really "follow" celebrity preachers. Some of these men (and women "ministers" too like BM) are held up as virtual idols.

Dave Ramsey - didn't his show start with an intro that said something like "welcome to the DR show, where cash is king"... hm, I always thought Christ was King. I will say this, though. Being financially responsible is a Christian's duty.

The American church has absolutely lost her mooring.


Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Yep, Driscoll was heavy into "sex sermons" and locker-room jock behavior in regards to sex. And yet he's sill going.

Anonymous said...

Hi Glenn,

Regarding MD, that's what I thought. Sad he is still going, isn't it? Even sadder that there are Christian pastors who still follow/promote him!

Just watched that video about Dave Ramsey. I never paid much attention to DR, but after watching that video, it is clear that he is a prosperity huckster. That, and the whole mega church concept makes me ill. It's the absolute antithesis of a true Biblical church. May the Lord bring the age of the mega church to a grinding halt.


Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I wouldn't call him a "prosperity huckster" because he doesn't teach that "gospel." What he teaches is good financial programs. He should stick to that and not try to make financial planning as part of a sermon which has nothing to do with financial planning.

Anonymous said...

Well, I would disagree, because his whole focus in that video was on getting rich. He uses the concept of "good financial planning" as a means to that end. Even his comments on choosing friends by their net worth, so you can be more like them (net worth wise), was a means to that end.

It's a different slant on the prosperity error, but it's the same junk. Like I said, Christians should be responsible financially. And we also should choose friends wisely, but not the way DR meant. We should have friends who are godly, and help us walk in a manner worthy of the calling we've received.


Glenn E. Chatfield said...

BUT, the "prosperity" gospel is the idea that God wants you to be rich and the more you give to the heretics the more God will bless you. DR doesn't teach that. His focus is getting rich by proper financial management, not because God wants you to be rich.

Anonymous said...

I do see DR teaching "give to get". Still using God for financial gain. Like I said, a different slant. More subtle. But I'm not going to strive about the issue. :) I know you reject prosperity preaching, wholly.

Thanks again for all your edifying posts!


Anonymous said...

PS these verses came to mind here, just a good prospective to keep in mind regarding DR:

1 Tim 6:5-11

Hope that helps too.


Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I don't know much about DR except that he has some good financial advise to help people with their budgets and how to save for the future. Nothing in this particular video says to me that he is promoting the idea that God WANTS us to be wealthy, or that we should seek to be rich rather than seek to be financially sound.

However, I've been seeing some comments on social media in regards to this video by people who are familiar with his teachings and I guess he's got more problems associating the Bible with wealth being an important thing, and he teaches that stupid idea of the tithe!!!

Most of what I've seen him give as financial advise is really common sense, and things I have done from the beginning; other things I wish I had done thinking towards retirement in preparing for medical bills!!!

But the man needs to never discuss theology again.

Martha said...

A good question to ask would be "Is Dave Ramsey a born again Christian?" And yes, he does give sound financial advice, but I have to wonder, exactly what kind of preaching and teaching did Jesus do in His day? What did He have to say about finances, wealth, and making it "big in this world?"

I'm not a hippie, and money does pay the bills, however,in most so called Christian churches and even in my close circle of friends, money, money, money tops the sermon of the day, and is spoken of far, far more than Jesus/His Ways. And in the most conservative of churches ,far more money is spent on big screens,elaborate sound systems, and gymnasiums attached to the fanciful sanctuaries, than helping the poor, feeding/caring for the sick, visiting the widows, and adopting the orphans....and this is not social gospel false teachings....it's the Way of Christ.

Sorry, the visible church that I have been a part of, lectures us more on money, than it does on loving the LORD with all of your heart, mind, and soul, and another big one; loving your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus left our fancy buildings with all of its fancy finds, long, long ago.....it's the unchurched believers of Jesus Christ that minister/take care of me when I am ill and struggling with paying the bills.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Being financially sound is actually proper for the Christian, and even the Proverbs speak of saving for future needs. Seeking wealth simply to be rich is nothing but greed, which IS a sin. As noted previously, I think DR's financial advice -- from what I've seen - falls in the preparatory category rather than seek wealth category.

I have no reason to believe DR isn't a born again believer as he claims. But that doesn't mean everything he says will be right.

I fully agree that the modern church spends way too much in an effort to be "up-to-date" with all the whiz-bangs and golly-gee technologies, which is why we quit giving to the assembly long ago (although we began giving to the local assembly at our current place because they seem to be much more concerned about what they do with the offerings!) and our giving is to missionaries and other ministries where we can actually see the work of the Lord being done.

Two assemblies we've attended for a while before leaving were on the high-pressure "giving" bandwagon so they could build new, not needed facilities. They hired firms to teaching them how to promote giving! Hired them with the hard-earned money congregants had provided for general offerings. A reason we left both places.

Most assemblies I've encountered never mention giving, but just "pass the plate" for anyone who wants to give (one assembly just had an offering box in the hall and never mentioned it).

Anonymous said...

Boy Martha and Glenn, your comments about the modern church spending - on big screens, big sanctuaries, gymnasiums, sound systems, whiz bangs and golly gee's (love that) i.e. all the fancy technologies, new unneeded buildings/facilities, instead of on the saints in need, missions, and ministry where the true work of the Lord is being done - man you both knocked that out of the park. SO (unfortunately) TRUE.

Too many times the churches we've attended have their budget in each week's bulletin. With, of course, a Bible verse on giving (sometimes with a 'tithe" reference) highlighted especially when they are in the red. Though, if you sit through a business meeting, these churches often have six figures sitting in a bank account, stuck, for a "building project" for a bigger church building, that often lags or never materializes. Of course, this also begs the question - do we need bigger mega churches, or would it be better to train up more men, and plant more, smaller assemblies, in more communities, meeting in smaller, easier-to-maintain facilities, so more giving can go to direct Gospel proclamation and care of the saints (including making sure the pastor can feed his family!)? Though I know at the mega mega's, most pastors rake in the dough in obscene amounts... but at average churches, the six figure building fund far overshadows the pastor's salary, and most pastors we've known have several children.

Take a guess what I think should be done? ;-)


Martha said...


Thank-you for your comment. It grieves me to no end, the spending habits of our local churches, for I find most of it absolutely disgusting, furthering the kingdom of men (invite more friends so we can look good as a 'growing church' AND they can give more money so we can build and look impressive to the material world.

While I have literally sat amongst the 'leadership' who consistently denied benevolence (that's my money given to help those in need) to women who were recently divorced, using government funding to attend schooling to support themselves, all the while their ex husbands either refused or could not afford child/alimony payments as ordered by the courts. I have known several women who had to humble themselves in approaching church boards to ask for funding to pay their grocery and electric bills, but were denied.

Boastingly, church board leadership has arrogantly told me, "We give them a small amount and that's it, because we don't want them dependent on us." So they are referred to government resources (Human Services) for their sustenance and survival. The "c'hurch" is too important in building their earthly kingdoms complete with all of the material garbage that does NOT save souls nor help the helpless in time of need.

Does this make me, a born again believer, angry? You betch-ya! And I get sick to my stomach when I hear the pastor begging for more money for a new improved sound system when my neighbor and friend wonders if her paycheck will cover the food costs for her single parent family of four. And I get even more sick to my stomach when I hear those churchly conservative voices around me (those who have not the compassion of Christ)say,

"Well, we have to exhibit god's tough love in order to teach her a lesson."

Jesus came to save the souls of mankind, not the junk we choose to worship and adore. We can be the missionaries amongst even amongst the churched in this day and age. The unchurched, I believe, are more good and godly in helping the 'least of these,' and even speaking of Jesus in every day conversation, than those who are members of the 501c. 3 church.

Marshall Art said...

Haven't listened enough to Dave Ramsey to know what his Biblical views are. At this point in my life I know well enough what I should and shouldn't do with my loot. I may listen more now just to see how he makes the money/Bible connection. Without buying into prosperity preaching...because I don't...I do not buy into any "anti-prosperity" preaching, either, such as some like to pretend. I simply believe that we can do more for others if we have more with which to do more. One can achieve without ignoring God or putting Him second to monetary acquisition. Working smarter and harder is both Godly and profitable. It's only when the working and profiting replaces God in our lives that spiritual problems exist.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Well said, Art!