Monday, February 2, 2009

Beth Moore's "Breaking Free"

I have been slowly reviewing the title book for the past few months and now I felt the need to post analysis of what I read. Let me say firstly that, even though it took a long time due to my not taking the time to just sit down, it is still a very cursory review which doesn't detail all the problems I found.

Let me say up front that I think Beth gives some very good advice in this book, but her credibility is denigrated by the problems she presents in her teachings. If she could eliminate the claims of special revelations and correct her hermeneutics, this could be a valuable book for women. Unfortunately, there will never be changes made so I have to recommend against the book if I am ever asked, unless it is used by very discerning Christians - or at least provide this information to them!

I’m not going to address every time Beth has poor or misleading teaching, rather I am going to concern myself only with poor use of Scripture, claims of special revelation, and eisogesis. To point out every problem would be an arduous task! (She also has some pop-psychology that disturbs me.)

Claims of Special Revelation: (I skimmed much of the book, so I may have missed some)

1. “You see, the finished work that falls in your hands represents untold hours of intensity with God in which He first taught it in ‘long hand’ to me.” P.4

2. “God spoke to my heart and said something like this: ‘I sent my Son to set the captives free. You will go forth and ring the liberty bell.’" p.6

3. “The words He first gave me after I began walking the path to freedom still echo in my mind.” P.6

4. P.43. “When I finally bent the knee to the Prince of Peace over hurts in my childhood, I realized He was directing me to forgive the person who hurt me. God did not insist on my forgiving for the sake of my perpetrator but for the sake of peace in my life. Once I began to surrender to Him in this painful area, He began to give me a supernatural ability to forgive.” Besides the pop-psychology evident here, what is the evidence that God insisted Beth forgive her offender; did He say something audible? Was there a sign given? And what is the evidence that she was giving a “supernatural ability to forgive.” Again, did God reveal this to her audibly or with a sign? As a general rule, doesn’t the Bible say that we are to forgive people IF they repent and seek forgiveness? So would God insist we forgive someone who has never repented? Luke 17:3-4 says IF your brother repents, forgive him. It doesn’t say we can’t forgive anyway, but would God insist that we do?

5. “As God began stirring the tremendously heavy burden in my heart to write this study…” Who’s to say that this was just her own emotions instead of God “stirring” her?

6. P.102 Moore lists five reasons she believes God allowed her childhood abuse. I can agree from biblical principles that the first four items are highly likely, especially since Beth starts each statement correctly with, “He knew.” And God knew all the things would happen as she says they happened because God sees the future. It is her last statement that bothers me because she says dogmatically, “He wanted me to teach how to make freedom in Christ a reality in life from the passion of personal experience.” Beth CANNOT know this! Therefore, this becomes a de facto claim of direct revelation. (And it may well be that God never wanted her to do anything about it!)

7. P. 181 Beth says, “I believe this week will be a supernatural turning point for all who take advantage of what they learn.” I wasn’t sure whether I should also include this under “revelation” or “other problems,” so I’m putting it here. Is it not arrogant and presumptuous to believe that your teaching will be a “supernatural turning point”? Is Beth then saying that God supernaturally meets everyone who studies Beth’s work? Of course this only works if we “resist the temptation to take any shortcuts or skip any homework!”

Misuse of Scripture and other problems:

1. Pp.14-15. We have first looked at 2 Chron. 26:21-27:9 and then Isa. 6:1-8 for the context of this section. “Isaiah grew up under the reign of the mighty King Uzziah and no doubt idolized him as a young boy…” is how Moore begins on p. 14. Then she decides that when Uzziah died it was “perfect timing” for God to choose that very same year to call on Isaiah because Isaiah was now “hero-less.” She continues on the next page, “I believe Isaiah idolized King Uzziah.” I think the word “idolized” is a bit extreme. Beth continues with an analogy of how she sees sports figures and in the world. But I don’t think the Israelites would put their kings in the position of idol, since that would be a rank violation of the Commandments.

Moore then gets really extra-biblical as she imagines all sorts of things about these passages. “People crave a human worth worshiping. We are wise not to try to deliver. Uzziah accidentally left poor Jotham hopeless to measure up in the minds of many. I believe Isaiah was one of them. Notice Isaiah 6:1 does not say, ‘in the year Jotham became king, I saw the Lord.’ Not the existence of something new but the removal of something old opened Isaiah’s eyes to the kingship of God.”

There are some real problems here. Firstly, Moore assumes Isaiah was worshiping Uzziah and then decided Jotham wasn’t worthy of worship. Secondly, she decides that Jotham was “hopeless to measure up” to his father “in the minds of many,” including Isaiah. Where does Scripture even intimate this? The Bible tells us Jotham, except for not tearing down the pagan “high places,” was more godly than his father! Moore’s idea comes because Isaiah says it was the year Uzziah died that he saw the Lord instead of saying it was the year in which Jotham became king. That is a non sequitur: what difference does it make how Isaiah recorded time? Perhaps he used Uzziah’s death because it was something that stood out? We don’t know because the Bible doesn’t say. But Moore says that the death of Uzziah was what “opened Isaiah’s eyes to the kingship of God.” So does this mean that Isaiah, in chapters 1-5, really didn’t understand God’s kingship? That’s what Moore implies. I think this is a gross misreading of Scripture.

At the bottom of the page Moore then makes this statement about Isaiah: “Isaiah was probably just as corrupt in mind, mouth, and practice as the people surrounding him.” I would think if this was the case that the Bible would have at least hinted at it. Isaiah was certainly a sinner, as everyone is, but it does not follow from this that Isaiah was so corrupt. Isaiah saw the corruption and I believe he was pained by it. After all, he was a prophet of God! Yet Moore has decided on her own that, “I don’t believe He called Isaiah because he was a man of character, like Noah. I suspect He may have called him because he was just as sinful as the rest of them.” But there is no Scriptural justification for this idea.

2. Pp. 32-33 Beth uses Isaiah 43:10-13 as if it is directed at the Christian, but the context of this passage is God talking to Israel. She asks, “Why have we been ‘chosen’ according to Isaiah 43:10?” But Is. 43:10 says nothing about us being chosen. The whole context of Is. 43:10-13 is about God and Israel yet Beth finds many parts of it addressing Christians. Can we as Christians take lessons about God from this passage? Yes: there is no other god besides God, there is no other Savior besides God, and no one can undo what God has done. Is Moore’s conclusion about who we are correct? Yes, but her method of coming to the conclusion is erroneous. (She misuses this same passage later in the book.)

3. Pp. 34-35 Beth again misuses Scripture to make her points. This time it is Isaiah 43:7. In context God is again talking about the nation Israel, but Beth asks the questions, “According to Isaiah 43:7, why did God create us?” In context God is talking about why He created Israel. Is Moore’s answer to her question correct? Yes, but again her road to the answer misuses the text.

4. P.39 we are to look at Jeremiah 31:23-25. God is talking about what he will be doing for Israel when He brings them back from captivity. Beth makes a spiritual application of this passage, saying that God “will refresh the weary and satisfy the faint” when He releases them from spiritual captivity. If she wanted to make an analogy, I’d have no problem with this, but to take the passage out of context and spiritualize it is another matter.

5. P. 46. Beth again is using Isaiah out of context with Isaiah 43:1-7. The context is God’s relationship with Israel but she makes it about His relationship with us. Again, if she discussed it as an analogy or a principle of God’s attributes, that would be okay. But she makes it a specific application to us.

6. P.73 begins a lot of pop psychology, which in itself can be harmful to individuals if that’s the route they take to deal with their problems. On page 75 Beth mentions things that keep us in bondage because of things we “inherit.” Then she defines what she means: “learned environmentally” (agreed), “genetically predisposed” (also agreed), “binding influence passed down through other means” (if this is the same as environmental influences, then it appears she is going into the “generational sin” of the aberrational spiritual warfare movement.).

7. On pp.79-80 she gives her interpretation of what Exod. 20:5 means, which really becomes no more than the unbiblical idea of generational sin. She starts by giving the example of “alcoholism” (a psychologically-incorrect term that pretends a lack of self-control with alcohol is a disease) and how many “alcoholics” (i.e., “drunks”) are in a family throughout generations because “alcoholism had been deposited in the family line.” But what she doesn’t see is that drunkenness is a learned behavior, not a “deposited” behavior. She seems to say these problems are learned behaviors with her citation of a story by Gilda Radner, but then she becomes inconsistent in whether it’s learned (environmental) or “deposited.” Maybe that’s why I’m confused about her teaching! While Beth, in that section, seems to be saying we can determine whether we want to continue with the sins of our progenitors or change for the better, there is also much to make me think she may want us to believe we can inherit these things, as Bill Gothard teaches (and as do many false “spiritual warfare“ teachers).

8. Her citation and use of Exod. 20:5 is common among proponents of this teaching, in that they overlook the next verse. She points out (p.83) how God allows “the sins of the fathers to visit the children to the third and fourth generations” but completely ignores the part about thousands of generations in verse 6! But even vs. 5 says “of those who hate me.”

9. P.99 Moore says that she believes Matt. 18:5-9 “specifically apply to child victimization or abuse…” While it is highly possible that victimization and abuse may lead the child into a sinful life, I think Jesus is talking specifically about leading them to sin in any manner. I’ve read some commentaries which say this isn’t addressing children so much as it is addressing those who are children in their faith. But Moore needs her meaning to apply in order for her to discuss her topic of child abuse. ( I think one can find plenty of passages to show God’s view of any abuse of a child!) The remainder of this section and the next is based on Moore’s interpretation. So, although her teaching on the subject may be helpful, her misapplication of Scripture is unacceptable.

10. P.120, Moore starts with a little bit of, “studying the tender - and may I say, romantic - ministry of Christ.” There is nothing “romantic” about Christ’s relationship with women any more than with men. This is one of the problems with many women’s teachings - they often tend to put a romantic slant on our relationship with Christ. Christ is not their individual husband as Moore claims beginning on p.121- He is the Husband of the Church. And that is a metaphor, not literal. Yet Moore continues to call each woman, and even each man, a separate bride of Christ, and she carries the analogy much farther than biblical. What she really leaves out by this teaching is the LORDSHIP of GOD the SON; he is not a lover. Beth continues the next chapter also teaching that Christ can fulfill “girlish dreams” of romantic relationships. This is unbiblical.

11. Beginning at p.126, Moore claims that the Song of Songs is “ultimately a story about Christ and His beloved bride - us.” This is 100% false. The Christian church, under Rome, started making this claim long ago because of prudery over the story. But if one reads the story in context, there is no way it can be about Christ and the Church. It is about a romantic - and even sexual - relationship between a husband and wife, and this cannot be made to be about Christ and the Church without eliminating the romance and sex, and then spiritualizing it all. P.135 ends with the romantic Jesus slant and the S.o.S nonsense. I will cut Moore a wee bit of slack on identifying S.o.S. as Christ and the Church because that has been taught by many.

12. P.148 “Even the Father and the Son had a Potter-Clay relationship. Christ obeyed the Potter.” Beth needs to be clearer here, because it sounds very much like she is saying Jesus was created by God the Father. I don’t think this is what she means, nor do I think she believes it, but she needs to be very careful of her verbiage, nevertheless.

13. P.163 Beth endorses a book by Francis Frangipane. I find this extremely disturbing! Frangipane has many, many aberrational teachings and is heavy into the “signs and wonders” movement and should never, ever be recommended in any teaching.

14. P.174, item 3. This sounds much like pop-psychology, self-esteem theology. Beth says that Jesus “thinks it will be heaven because you will be there.” So if you weren’t there it wouldn’t be heaven to Jesus? What if you choose not to follow Christ and end up in Hell - does Christ then think heaven isn’t heaven? Then Beth cites a song saying, “When He was on the Cross, I was on his mind.” No, it wasn’t anyone personal who was on Jesus’ mind, rather it was the salvation of mankind in total.

15. P.203 Beth says, “This journey has required the full participation of your heart, soul, mind, and strength. If you have fully participated in every lesson and every exercise, you have withheld nothing from Him.” This equates withholding participation in a Beth Moore study with withholding yourself from God. I find this a bit arrogant, as well as presumptuous.

Well, there you have it - my cursory review of this book by Beth Moore. I can only guess that the DVD probably has obnoxious behavior as seen on her "Believing God" series.

I really would like to see Beth Moore get some good theological training and retract a lot of her bad teachings, even pulling publications that have them. With her popularity, she could really do some good if she cleaned up her act.

17 comments:

Glory 2 Jesus 4 Photography said...

What a great detailed review. It is rare that you see some one give the the truth and correction for others misleading and weak doctrine. If you do not mind I would like to link this and put you in my blog role.
Thank you for standing and speaking out in the name of Jesus.
God bless.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Well, hello Corey (I looked at your blog!),

Thank you for your kind words. You must have just stumbled across my blog because I have dealt with Beth previously. You might want to read those posts (and some of the comments I get - not all nice)to see the progression. Also, I have just co-authored an article about Beth in the latest Personal Freedom Outreach journal (www.pfo.org)

http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2007/12/beth-moores-bad-teachings.html

http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2008/02/beth-moore-reprised.html

http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2008/05/beth-moore-revisited.html

I would be honored to be in your blog roll!

In His Service,
Glenn

Marie said...

Hey again,

Wow - I must have missed the Francis F endorsement, b/c I read "Breaking Free" before I even knew who she was. Unfortunately, I gave my copy away to an equally deluded soul and no longer have it.

The "generational curses" doctrine that Beth teaches unapologetically struck me even back then as being totally unbiblical. Thanks for pointing that out. Also, her theology is very "us" oriented and "self-esteem" - as if the sole purpose of God is to glorify man and enjoy him forever.

She takes the Bridal Paradigm waaaaaayy too far in almost ALL of her "studies". She even worked it into "Daniel" (Christ is looking down from His throne anxiously courting us.) Unfortunately, women seem vulnerable to this and eat it up.

As time goes on, Moore seems to sink further and further into unsound doctrine and becomes increasingly prideful and unteachable.

Glory 2 Jesus 4 Photography said...

Glenn,
Thank you for taking the time in pointing me to your other post I will be sure to try and read those as well. You are correct I just happened to stumble onto your blog and am glad I did.
God Bless

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Marie,
Breaking Free was copyrighted in 1999, so it is a rather ancient book. Perhaps that's why I found a lot more beneficial teaching in this one that newer ones.

When I move just south of Cedar Rapids, IA a bit over 13 years ago I was just starting to branch my apologetics study off of just cults and into other false teachings and teachers, having spent the previous year learning all about Word of Faith. I had never heard of Frangipane.

Our first Sunday in town our realtor invited us to church with him and we went to River of Life, Frangipane's church. It was an experience I will never forget - BIZARRE! And they sent us out with some of Frangipane's books. Reading those things was a real eye-opener. Then I learned a lot about his history from those in the area who've know him for a long time through church splits and take-overs. I could tell you about lots of weird/wacky things with that church since I've been here!

There's sort of a sad joke among the discerning Christians in town. The corner with R.O.L. is know as "cult corner": Across the street east is Unity and across the street north is the RLDS (now known as Community of Christ).

Why any discerning Christian would recommend anything by Frangipane is beyond me.

Marie said...

Beth Moore is anything but discerning, Glenn. She constantly quotes Deitrich Boenhoffer and Eugene Patterson, neither of whom are (or were) exactly doctrinally sound. Her "Be Still" participation revealed an affinity for medieval Catholic mystics, as well.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

HAH, HAH! I know Beth is not discerning - that's my point with exposing her. :oD

I meant that last statement as a general comment about Frangipane.

ems d said...

Glenn I have read this (after requesting your views on spiritual revelation) and felt the need to comment. Fundamentally, I just think that you are (deliberately) misinterpreting Mrs Intentions when she speaks. I see nothing wrong in any of the statements she makes at all. To suggest that we don’t learn from God through the study of his word, through prayer, from burdens and passions the holy spirit places in our hearts, to not feel called – now that would be heresy as it would suggest that God doesn’t care enough about us to develop /teach us.
Specifically
1 What I understood from this statement was that she is saying that the book she has written is the (abbreviated) result of a long hard struggle dealing with past sins and hurts through which Beth has learnt from God and his word ?


2. She felt a specific calling on her heart to work with captives and she is just trying to put into words what that calling felt like (No different to someone saying God placed Africa in my heart and gave me a burden for Kenya said by a missionary)

3. Isn’t this just “The lessons I learnt through a painful process still resonate and are fresh in my mind?”

4. Firstly, to forgive someone who has sexually abused you needs ‘supernatural ability to forgive’ period! Secondly, she doesn’t cover at all whether this man was repentant or not so you are reading too much into this to assume he wasn’t. Also why do you have a problem with her feeling that God speaks to her (from his living word) in a personal way?? I think that if you are carrying a lot of hurt from a situation it can be very damaging to your soul. Isn’t part of the deal with forgiveness that it ‘heals’ the forgiver. I have always understood it that. Also doesn’t the ‘Lords prayer’ suggest that we should forgive though who sin against us, NOT as a reaction to their repentance, but as a reaction to almighty God forgiving us??

5. God stirs his people –why even suggest that it might be emotion and be negative about it?

6. Again you seem to suggest that we can’t have a calling /leading from God. I find this a strange view. Also she is not being dogmatic, she is giving her view on her life, surely something she is entitled to do (could have been dogmatic if talking more generally ) Glenn, why do you write this blog , surely it is the Lord stirring in your heart and leading you to this ministry of apologetics/ correction? Same thing??

7. P. Can see your issue, but I think you are being harsh. Why write a book if you didn’t pray/ want / believe peoples lives to be changed by it. Also, it is fair to assume that if you are prayerfully and biblically working though past pain then at certain points there is a good possibility of turning , if you put in the effort. I think her comments are an exultation to study hardier and really hand over hurts to God (remembering that this book is aimed at woman who are hurting)
In conclusion, I find your criticisms to be harsh, and wonder if a lot of it is just a male /female divide thing (we are made to be different and we think differently!)
Either way I encourage you to continue in your discernment but with a more encouraging spirit,
God bless
Ems

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hello again ems d,

Now, why would I deliberately misinterpret what Moore’s intentions? I have no reason to do so, and I have much better things to do with my time than to look for things to pick apart. The only reason I ever even looked at Moore’s stuff was because a lady at church asked me to look at “Believing God” because she saw red flags with it. No, I am interpreting the words as they are written, and if Moore doesn’t mean what she says then it is she who needs to be more plain. And if you see nothing wrong with her statements, then I suggest you be a wee bit more objective with your analysis.

I NEVER suggested we don’t learn from God through the study of His Word, prayer, etc. What I dispute are Moore’s claims to have specific divine guidance from direct communication with God. “Breaking Free” didn’t have near the direct claims as did “Believing God,” but it does show her pattern of claiming special authority for her teaching based on her fellowship with God that the rest of us don’t have.

Item 1. What you understand Moore to write and what she did write are two different things. And that has been part of the problem with women who go with their feelings rather than actually look at what is said. Moore said God taught it in “long hand” to her. While standing alone this statement can indeed be a figure of speech, when it is put together with other multitudes of claims she has made, then there is no way of knowing she isn’t claiming this literally.

Item 2. Part of the overall problem in the church is how people always say “God did such and such.” Unless God specifically stated something, we can’t say that. We can say we BELIEVE God led us to do such and such, but we can’t say it dogmatically. Beth is always dogmatic, and since she has so much error, I find it highly doubtful that she has actually been called to this ministry, rather it is something that she just wants to do. She may be called and yet makes errors, but if that is the case, wouldn’t the Holy Spirit open her to correction? And then the statement as to what she said God spoke to her about is problematic - she hasn’t been called specifically to “ring the liberty bell” ---ALL Christians are called to evangelize!

Item 3. Your statement and hers are not the same. She said God “gave” the words to her. If God “gave” her the words, there would be no errors.

Item 4. I disagree that any “supernatural ability to forgive” is necessary for ANY sin. There is absolutely no Scriptural justification for that claim. And you are correct that she doesn’t mention whether her perpetrator even sought repentance, but never in any of her writings that I (or friends of mine) have read does she ever intimate that he did. My problem with Moore “feeling that God speaks to her” is that she doesn’t say it was by reading the Word, rather it is always stated as direct revelation - personal contact. Had she said, “While reading the Word, I felt that God was directing me to forgive the person that hurt me,” then I would have no problem with what she said. Then she said that God “insisted” she forgive - how could God “insist” she do that without a personal revelation? You asked, “Isn’t part of the deal with forgiveness that it ‘heals’ the forgiver. I have always understood it that.” You will not find that in Scripture, rather you will find that in the feel-good doctrines of the members of the psychological industry. Do you think God forgives because it “heals” Him? The Lord’s prayer asks God to forgive us as we forgive others, but it doesn’t state what that forgiveness is based on. In Luke 17 Jesus says, “IF” the offender repents. Again, I am not saying we can’t forgive anyway, what I was questioning was whether God would INSIST we forgive an unrepentant person. After all, God does not forgive the unrepentant sinner - He sends him to Hell.

Item 5. I suggested it might be emotion (and that IS NOT negative - it is simply an analysis) because so much of what she says is wrong. Had she said, “I felt as if God stirred me to write this study,” then I would have no problem. The problem is her dogmatic assertion that God indeed “stirred” her to do it.

Item 6. Again, read what I wrote in the article. I NEVER suggested that we can’t have a calling/leading from God. And Moore was indeed being dogmatic when she said, “He wanted me to teach how to make freedom in Christ a reality in life from the passion of personal experience.” She is saying she KNOWS what God wanted, and yet she has no evidence that this is so. Her dogmatism was my problem. She should have said something more like, “I believe God wanted to use me to teach….” Do you see the difference? In her statement she claims to know the mind of God. Why do I write this blog? Because I BELIEVE - I FEEL - as if this is where God has led me due to a vast collection of “coincidences” that took place over a period of years. BUT, I would never DOGMATICALLY say “God led me to the apologetics ministry” - instead I say, “I BELIEVE God led me to the apologetics ministry.” I would never claim to know the mind of God outside of what He has revealed in Scripture.

Item 7. I don’t understand why you thing this is being harsh. There’s a wide difference between people’s lives being changed as a result of teaching they receive and the statement that their lives will be “supernaturally” changed. Beth is claiming that her teachings provide a “supernatural” change, but only the Holy Spirit can provide that.

Okay, as I previously stated, the issues of claiming direct revelation in this book are not as strong as in the DVD series “Believing God,” but this book shows an overall pattern of how she talks and the problem with word/phrase choices that are misleading at best.

I understand Moore’s books are often directed at women who have suffered past abuse, which makes her books even more harmful because they often don’t provide the proper Scriptural basis for dealing with such issues. Instead she appeals to secular psychological methods which never cure anyone! What she needs is a good course in biblical counseling - Nouthetic Counseling and not “Christian psychology” from the likes of syncretistic teachers such as Dobson, Smally, Trent, et al.

I wonder if you could explain why my criticisms of Moore’s teachings are “harsh.” I try to be as gentle as possible and yet expose the error in a factual way. My wife reviews all of my articles to help me avoid such problems (she is one of the most feeling, compassionate people I have ever known and that is why I ask her to look over my work before I post it). My wife - and many, many women who have commented on my blog as well as in personal e-mails - have grave problems with Beth Moore’s teachings. So it isn’t a male/female divide.

I notice you didn’t address the hermeneutical and other problems in this article. I suggest you also read my article of 5/2/08, “Beth Moore Revisited,” for more evidence of claims to direct revelation and more serious hermeneutical problems with Beth’s teachings.

Thank you for visiting my blog. I only suggest you be a little bit more objective with your analysis of Moore’s teachings, and use discernment no matter who you read.

In His Service,
Glenn

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you'll read this, but if you do, I would greatly your input. Some of the ladies of our church began a study just today of Beth Moore's "A Woman's Heart God's Dwelling Place" .. I attended this morning's session and came away wondering if this is worth my time. It seemed very 'me' centered as in "God pursued me". Again, your insight is appreciated. Blessings!
Louise M in Michigan

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Louise,
I have been told that when Beth does a study of a specific book of the Bible she is usually not too bad, but when she does topical studies she can be completely off-the-wall.

My feeling is this: If a teacher is known to have continuous hermeneutical problems, continuous claims of direct revelation from God, sanctioning of secular psychology, and a host of other problems as does Beth, then I would not recommend any studies by that person, nor would I spend my valuable study time wondering if I was able to discern the wheat from the chaff reading her stuff.

As for the title of the one you name, isn't every Christian's heart "God's dwelling place"? Don't we all have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? That title, in and of itself, would be a bell-ringer to me. And if it is consistent with other Beth Moore stuff, then it will be much about the self.

Does this help?

Glenn

Anonymous said...

Glen, thank you for taking the time to answer my question and confirming what's been running through my mind since yesterday morning. Our time IS too precious to spend it attempting to discern wheat from chaff, and Beth Moore's past shows us clearly where she's likely at today.

Indeed, our hearts already ARE our precious Savior's dwelling place...what a blessed truth that is. Thank you for reminding me of that.

May the Lord continue to bless you and keep you. You are doing a great service to the body of Christ and I am deeply appreciative and thankful I found the blogs of yours and your wifes.

Blessings,
Louise in MI

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Louise,

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to be of help.

Jill has been a wee bit behind on her blog. She has about 5 articles started and keeps saying she needs to sit down and finish. We seem to be so very busy outside the home, that when we are home we have lots of work around the house and yard to do!

Keep the discerning eye open!

Glenn

Anonymous said...

Tis me again ... one more thought ... if you could do an article about Beth Moore's latest study 'A Woman's Heart, God's Dwelling Place' it would be appreciated.

Blessings,
Louise in MI

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi Louise,

Well, I really don't have the inclination to go buy her book just to review it, especially since I have more than enough reason to discourage people from reading Moore's books. Not only that, but I am currently really very involved with writing an apologetics course for high school students and don't have the time to put into another study of Beth Moore. However, if someone wants to do a good objective study, I'd be more than happy to read it!

Glenn

BeckyJo606 said...

It makes me sad that you decided to refer to the Community of Christ as a cult. In what says does it resemble a cult? How are we going to ever get anywhere when Christian churches continue to attempt to one up each other?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Well Hi BeckyJo606,

Calling a sect a “cult” isn’t a matter of churches trying to “one up each other,” rather it is a matter of determining whether a particular sect is orthodox in their teachings.

The Community of Christ is also known as the Reorganized Latter Day Saint Church, a break-off of the Utah LDS denomination. Joseph Smith’s son, at the behest of Smith’s wife and other followers, started the new sect. They essentially dumped all the bizarre doctrines of the Nauvoo period, claiming Joseph didn’t really teach such things (the proof is irrefutable that he indeed did so).

The RLDS still holds that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that the Book of Mormon is true. Any church which follows a false prophet is cultic. The book of Mormon is also a false gospel, which Paul condemned in Galatians chapter 1. As with the LDS, the RLDS claims that the New Testament church went into total apostasy after the death of the apostles and disappeared from the earth until re-established by Joseph Smith, and as a result of that all existing churches in 1820 were wrong and their creeds were an abomination before God. Another part of the false gospel taught by the RLDS is that salvation is by obedience to the laws and ordinances of Joseph Smith, and that heaven consists of three tiers, and that people will be able to hear and respond to Smith’s gospel after death. The RLDS God is an eternal visible being, and he and Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith (the deity of Christ is equivocated on).

Aside from following a false prophet, false holy book, false God, false Christ and a false gospel, the RLDS has become a very liberal church allowing women leaders and supporting homosexuality. The RLDS even has an official organization named GALA (Gays and Lesbian Acceptance).

The RLDS fits all the classic definitions of a cult. It is not a biblical Christian denomination. Ex-RLDS members will tell you the same thing.