We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum. A.W. Tozer
Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth. --Basil of Caesarea
Once you learn to discern, there's no going back. You will begin to spot the lie everywhere it appears.

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service. 1 Timothy 1:12

Thursday, August 13, 2015

T.D. Jakes and Homosexuality


Big flap this past week with T.D. Jakes speaking about homosexuality.  I’ve been waiting to address it to see how the situation develops, but I think we’ve come to the end for the moment so I’m commenting now.

There are some things he said which must be examined, because some say he was ambiguous and he claims he is personally against homosexuality, but then he makes it sound as if Christianity — i.e. a real Church — can approve of homosexuality!  Let’s look at some statements:

I think it is going to be diverse from church to church. Every church has a different opinion on the issue and every gay person is different. And I think that to speak that the church—the black church, the white church or any kind of church you wanna call it—are all the same, is totally not true.
Here’s a problem — If ANY church has an opinion on homosexuality other than that it is a sin and should not be tolerated, then that church is NOT a Christian church, even though Jakes is suggesting it can be.

LGBT’s of different types and sorts have to find a place of worship that reflects what your views are and what you believe like anyone else.
But can there be a true place of worship which accepts LGBTXYZ as not sinful?  If Jakes is suggesting they find a place which agrees with them and that will be legitimate worship, doesn’t this make Jakes a false teacher (of course he’s a false teacher anyway, but just add another dimension now)?

The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don’t like those convictions and values [and] you totally disagree with it, don’t try to change my house, move into your own … and find somebody who gets what you get about faith.
Here Jakes seems to be suggesting that you can have a “homosexual” church — but if you did then it wouldn’t be Christian!

He said that the issue of homosexuality is “complex.”  The issue of homosexuality is complex?!?  In what way?  God says it is sin — PERIOD.  It can’t be marriage because God defined marriage as between a man and a woman — PERIOD.  So where is the complexity?

Paul spends a lot of time wrestling back and forth, trying to understand should a woman wear a head covering, should you cut your hair.  I mean, they grappled back then and we’re grappling now because we’re humans and we are flawed and we’re not God.
Wrong!  Paul spent very little time on that topic, and that has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality, rather Jakes just throws a red herring out there to distract from the issue at hand.

When asked if his position on homosexuality has “evolved,” Jakes agreed that it has.
Evolved and evolving,” he replied. “I think that where I am is to better understand we, the church, bought into the myth that this is a Christian nation.
Excuse me, but how can a Christian have an “evolving” position on homosexuality?  Either you agree with God that it is a sin, or you rebel against God by saying it’s okay.  There is no middle ground.  And another red herring about people thinking this is a “Christian nation” has nothing to do with the topic at hand — just another distraction.

A follow-up article was supposed to clarify what Jakes meant, but I didn’t see any change in what he was saying.

I think it is going to be diverse from church to church. Every church has a different opinion on the issue and every gay person is different.  And I think that to speak that the church—the black church, the white church or any kind of church you wanna call it—are all the same, is totally not true.
Well, it SHOULD BE true.  Every real Christian church should have the very same fundamental doctrines, and the same fundamental understanding of how God sees homosexuality as a sin.  Herein lies a major problem with Jakes’ statements — he is suggesting a real church CAN accept homosexuality.

Jakes said that he thinks homosexuals should find congregations that affirm their lifestyle.
Why would he suggest that homosexuals attend apostate congregations?  How are they supposed to learn the truth of the Christian faith, and of the saving Gospel, if they attend congregations which affirm them in their sin?

Following Christian News Network’s report on Jakes’ statements, he shot back on Facebook, remarking that he was “shocked” at how his comments were interpreted, but reiterated that while he personally disagrees with homosexual “marriage,” he “respects” the government’s provision of it.
So, does Jakes also respect the government which provided for slavery?  Does he respect the government’s provision for abortion?

He contended that when he used the phrase “evolved and evolving” in response to Hill’s question, he was only referring to the methods used to minister to homosexuals, not his position on the issue.
So how can one “evolve” in their methods to deal with sin?  Downplay it because it is culturally acceptable?

“I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.”
And yet he respects the government’s provision for it?!?!  How can you respect a government’s position which is in direct rebellion against God?!?

I think Michael Brown had a very good commentary about the issue, and I don’t think Jakes has really clarified anything except to say what his personal beliefs are regarding same-sex fake marriage.  Otherwise, he seems to believe a Christian assembly can affirm homosexuality and still be a Christian assembly, and that is not possible.

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

OOOH BUT WAIT! Wasn't Jakes accepted as "one of us" during the Elephant-In-The-Room debacle years ago? Even though evidence of his false h/w/p and modalist teachings were already evident?

So should we be surprised now? Nope. He should have been rejected back then. But a few too many "big names" allowed a wolf right in the door.

-Carolyn

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Oh, yes, the man is a rank heretic theologically, but if we can nail him down on this issue, perhaps some of his followers will wake up!

Anonymous said...

I get what you're saying, but there are still those who are so blind, no matter what evidence you put before them, they will not even try to see.

Case in point - considering the mountains of evidence of serious problems with men like RIck Warren and Mark Driscoll, how many believers still think they both are the cat's meow???

They have Moses and the Prophets, let them believe them. They surely will not believe even if someone is raised from the dead.

God bless you for trying, Glenn. :) But what I see you doing more is encouraging and protecting those of us who DO see.

-Carolyn

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

All we can do is plant the seeds. There may not be that many who allow the seeds to grow, but even one is one more saved.

Anonymous said...

True, Glenn. We can only plant seeds.

-Carolyn

John Stefanyszyn said...

Mr. Jakes, as leader of his ministry and the Potter's church, talks eloquently about the Word of God, but seems to be socially neutral and non committal on the unrighteousness of homosexuality.
He seems to be walking instead the walk of "social correctness"...so as to respect the FREEDOM of rights of those, President Obama, that claim that the homosexual lifestyle is right, a right, in their own eyes.

Mr. Jakes respects this FREEDOM because it is his first love.
He worships the same FREEDOM that the homosexuals do, but in his case it is to be free to do his religion.
This FREEDOM that both worship dictates that it is RIGHT, a right, to be free to worship ANY 'god' as per one's self-justification.
How can Mr. Jake speak against the sin of homosexuality when he himself embraces the sin of freedom to worship any god ( religious liberty).
Once, some people accused the Lord Jesus Christ of being a demon when he cast out a demon. But the Lord Jesus Christ said that satan cannot cast out satan for his house would fall.

Mr. Jakes worships the same freedom as do the homosexuals.
Mr. Jakes worships the way of satan, which confesses that it is right to embrace the "taken freedom" to justify "good and evil" in one's own eyes, for one's own wisdom and desires.

Mr. Jake is as a virgin whose oil vessel is empty and who is using the name of Christ as a 'lamp' that will soon burn out...for the Lord Jesus Christ will say " I do not know you, workers of lawlessness".

The Lord Jesus Christ said to worship ONLY the One Lord your Creator and Him Alone to SERVE in obedience and love, love for HIM first and foremost and love for, to do GOOD according to the One Truth, to the fellow man.

Very soon, the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the One Creator, will return, as a thief in man's eyes, to rule the earth in obedience and power as the ONE KING according to the Will of 'I AM' and NOT according to man's first love for "his freedom", for his desire to serve and magnify oneself (XES).
...and man will weep and clench his teeth in intense anger when his freedom will be no more.

The Lord Jesus Christ said to walk in his steps and to suffer the same.
The Lord Jesus Christ said to repent and to serve Only Him, the One True Way.

John Stefanyszyn said...

TD Jakes...FREEDOM, the Overarching System (the ‘god of fortresses’?) that Protects Unique Nuances.

Mr. Jakes recently stated …
..."...Once you begin to understand that democracy, that a republic actually, is designed to be an overarching system to protect our unique nuances, then we no longer look to public policy to reflect biblical ethics."
..."The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don't like those convictions and values and you totally disagree with it, don't try to change my house, move into your own ... and find somebody who gets what you get about faith."

It is clear that Mr. Jakes believes in, defends, and glorifies the righteousness of FREEDOM of Self-Rights….which in this discussion revolves around freedom of sexual lifestyle and religious freedom.

He has very clearly justified in his eyes the “goodness” of the democratic (self-ruling) system, outlining that it acts as the “overarching system”, ie the authority above all other authorities, that protects the nuances , the differences in the variety and preferences of personal beliefs, whether they be sexual or religious.

In other words, this “ overarching” acts as the ‘god of (above) all fortresses’.

It is written in Daniel, that the last king of the north will glorify and advance his “god of fortresses”.

What is the one belief, amongst all nations, peoples, religions, lifestyles, that is common to all?
What one belief is embraced, desired, and glorified by the small and the great, by the rich and the poor, by the free (employers) and by the bondmen ( employees)?
What is the one belief that is marked as a sign of allegiance on everyone’s forehead and hand?

Is it not the love for FREEDOM...for freedom of self-rights, freedom of self-religion, freedom of self-happiness, freedom of sexual lifestyle?

Mr. Jakes has clearly shown that he places this FREEDOM as the overarching way of life above all other beliefs, thus subsequently placing the Son of the One Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, below this “FREEDOM” and consequentially categorizing HIM to be of EQUAL validity to ‘other gods’.

This FREEDOM dictates that it is RIGHT, a right, to be free to worship ANY ‘god’ as per one’s self-justified desires, establishing this to be “good” in one’s own eyes.

BUT the One Creator said that man is not to worship any other gods. In other words HE said that man is NOT FREE to worship other gods, warning man that if he were to do so the judgement and penalty for this taken-freedom, for this disobedience, would be death.

The Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the One Creator, said the we are to worship ONLY the One Lord your Creator God and HIM Alone to serve in obedience and love, love for HIM first and foremost and love for, to do GOOD according to the One True Way, to the fellow man.

Very soon, the Lord Jesus Christ will return, as a thief in man’s eyes, to rule the earth in obedience and power as the ONE KING according to the Will of ‘I AM’ and NOT according to man’s first love for “his overarching freedom “, for his desire to serve and magnify oneself (XES).
...and man will weep and clench his teeth in intense anger when his freedom will be no more
...and the Lord Jesus Christ will say, to those that hypocritically and theologically claim “biblical ethics” in His Name, that “ I do not know you, workers of lawlessness”.

The Lord Jesus Christ said to repent and to serve Only Him, for He is the One True Way of Life.