We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum. A.W. Tozer

Thursday, October 6, 2011

Random Apostasies and Heresies

T.D. Jakes has long been known as a false teacher/heretic due to his modalistic beliefs, but now he is preaching homosexual theology.  I just came across this piece, and it has been on the ‘net since August 2008!  And yet this guy’s books are sold by the thousands in so-called “Christian” book stores!
I learned something new about Jehovah’s Witnesses: if you don’t agree with their theology, then you are “mentally diseased”!!!  Such an unfortunate choice of words, because if there was such a thing as a mental disease (and there isn’t), those who are in cults would certainly be afflicted with them because they are unable to think for themselves.
The Presbyterian Church (USA) has gone full-blown into homosexuality.  This Saturday will see the first openly homosexual person ordained to the ministry.  [link gone by 5/12/14] On July 10th they changed their constitution to remove a requirement that their clergy be either married to someone of the opposite sex or remain celibate.  This opened the door for a homophile to become a “pastor” (read, “goatherd”).  The PCUSA long ago decided that God’s Word was not to be followed in their denomination.  So if there are any true Christians in the PCUSA, why are you still there?
Rick Warren keeps going farther and farther away from Christian orthodoxy and into apostasy.  He has been a false teacher for years, yet he is able to have a huge following of non-discerning Christians.  Now he has invited a Word of Faith heretic into his “church” to preach!  I will say it again and again, avoid Rick Warren like the plague that he is!
Lastly, more on another heretic goatherd named Joel Osteen!  This guy is also a proponent of the Word of Faith heresy as well as self-esteem theology.  And, as I have noted in previous posts, he has no idea of the difference between true Christianity and Mormonism. He was again interviewed on television, along with his wife, and could not speak clear, cohesive, or coherent Christian beliefs about such things as capital punishment, abortion and homosexuality.  He is a coward because he doesn’t want to offend anyone; after all, his theology is all about making people feel good.  He especially danced around the issue of same-sex faux marriage and finally came to the conclusion that he could give tacit approval by attending a “wedding” even though he could never perform one.  And yet, again, so-called “Christian” book stores sell his books by the thousands and people flock to hear him speak.  This man is pure cyanide.

13 comments:

Steve Bricker said...

The longer I live, the more surprised I become at the rampant heresy, though I really shouldn't be. The NT makes clear that false teachers would come in and ravage the church. I have been listening to back podcasts of Fighting for the Faith and just shake my head at what poison is offered in the name of Christ.

ali said...

Threshing has begun and the wheat will soon be separated from the chaff.

aprilnandy said...

I'm very curious to understand how you would define "mental disease", because I do think mental disease is very real. It isn't always easy for us to understand what goes on inside other people's heads, but I know for a fact that depression is very real because I live with it and it is a very serious struggle for me. And I am a born again Christian! Can you help me to understand what you mean? I would really like to hear your side.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Hi aprilnandy,

The mind is intangible and cannot be ill or diseased. It there is an organic, genetic defect or injury to the brain which causes the thinking processes to be defective, that is a medical condition.

Depression may or may not be caused by an organic deficiency; my studies show that most depression is caused by wrong thinking. Good biblical counseling has a wonderful track record of resolving such issues. If it is caused by organic problems, then a medical doctor should be the one treating it.

The worst thing in the world for a Christian is to get involved with secular psychology because it is totally anti-Christian, anti-God in its worldview, and in fact originated from atheists.

Does that answer your question?

Matt said...

I wonder if it's just the fact that I'm reading this as opposed to hearing it, but I cannot find--after searching for it--one ounce of love or humility in any of this.

Heretics are people. Not numbers. Not a plague. They are people. Deceived people in need of love and prayer, not finger-pointing and name-calling.

Also, I appreciate your logical response to April regarding mental illness, but it has the ring of someone who has never truly struggled with anything of the sort. There is a huge difference between a bad thought pattern and a case of depression. One you can change by sheer will, and the other can only be healed by a miracle of the Holy Spirit--much like true salvation is not an act of will but a work of the Spirit.

I'm sorry to come across harshly, but this I know: true discernment will always lead you to your knees in intercession, not simply to the blogosphere. And I have a feeling that if you had spent hours praying for these "heretics" I wouldn't sense such a lack of genuine concern for their souls.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Matt,

Do you look for “love” or “humility” in a newspaper? The article is a report about what is out there. Why is that not showing “love” or “humility”? It would not be loving to withhold dangerous information and allow more people to be caught up in false teachings. And reporting on false teachings does not mean one is lacking humility.

Heretics need to be exposed as the wolves they are. Yes, they are people, but they are spiritually dangerous people. Paul said to let heretics he was discussing be “eternally condemned” and yet I doubt if you would therefore claim Paul was unloving and without humility. Heretics are a spiritual plague upon the church. Identifying a criminal as such is not “name-calling,” nor is identifying a heretic as such “name-calling.” “Finger-pointing” is indeed proper - if you don’t point out who the heretics are, then all you do is allow them to deceive more an more people.

I agree that deceived people need love prayer, but they also need to be warned against by exposing them for who they are. Many of the “deceived” are the leaders who are not at all deceived, rather they know exactly what they are doing. Word of Faith preachers are a very good example - they know full well they are bilking their followers out of millions of dollars, and they know full well what they are teaching is false. Joseph Smith knew full well he was lying to people to form his new religion. So these people aren’t always deceived - they know they are deceiving.

You are wrong in your assessment that I have never struggled with anything in the emotional realm; I have had some severe struggles. There is no difference between bad thinking and depression that is not organically-caused, because that type of depression IS bad-thinking. Depression which has no organic basis (brain injury or defect) is merely self-focus about personal problems. We are not called as Christians to focus on personal troubles to the point of withdrawing from life, etc. With a Christian, the Holy Spirit will help the person restructure their thinking processes to be able to live a fully functional life in spite of depression. Life is HARD, and depression about it is common; it’s just that some people focus more on the depression than they do in moving on despite the depression.

Your final paragraph assumes way to much about my personal life and is totally erroneous. I do have a genuine concern for their souls, which is why I started in the apologetics ministry almost 40 years ago after leaving the Mormon Church. On the other hand, it appears from your comment and the brief examination I made of your site, that you are more about defending heretics rather than protecting the flock from their false teachings; your defense of Rob Bell is a primary example. That man has been a false teacher for at least a decade and his latest book is just him coming out of hiding - so to speak. Yes, most of everything he has ever taught has been false. Do false teachers have good stuff to say? Yes - even Joseph Smith had some good teachings. But just a little bit of cyanide pollutes the water one drinks, and anyone drinking from the waters of people like Rob Bell, T.D. Jakes or Rick Warren are going to end up spiritually ill.

Stop defending the wolves and start protecting the sheep.

Matt said...

Is this the post where you claim that I defend Rob Bell?

http://mattrosewritings.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/jesus-hell-and-yes-rob-bell/

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Matt,

It is this one:
http://www.mattrosewritings.net/2011/09/siblings-we-wont-claim.html

Matt said...

I would challenge you to read the post on heaven and hell and to see how I feel you can love a person while still calling out beliefs that can be damaging.

Anything further I could say on that subject is found in this post:

https://mattrosewritings.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/luke-643-49/

Don't judge. Observe. There is a world of difference.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Matt,

Firstly, I do not judge anyone as to their eternal condition unless they profess not to be Christian, and then I can judge what their eternal condition will be if the status quo remains. But we can indeed biblically judge people for what they are - even Jesus called the Pharisees “hypocrites.” We can judge someone who kills another with malice aforethought as being a murderer. In like manner, when someone preaches heresy, we can judge that person to be a heretic.

There is nothing ever mentioned in anything I write that even hints that we shouldn’t still love the person and seek their redemption. Just because that isn’t spelled out in every post, that doesn’t mean it isn’t my philosophy. I think it should go without saying - among Christians, for who my blog is intended - that we love the sinner while condemning the sin - including the sin of false teachings.

We are not called to just observe false teachings. We are called to judge them and expose them for what they are. If you do not judge teachings and expose those that are false, then you leave the flock vulnerable to the wolves.

Matt said...

You have a plausible argument, but your constant name-calling betrays you. You do observe the sins of others, and then you call them names and write them off. If it was up to you, you would leave them to die in their sins rather than work for reconciliation.

I have observed. I have lovingly shared my observation. I am not called to force you to agree or to go any further in this conversation.

I have been praying for you and for those who feel called to discernment ministries, and I will continue to do so. There is much good in what you want to do, but there is a much better way to do it.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Matt,

Again, it is not “name-calling” unless you want to charge Jesus with the same thing. If a person is a heretic or a false teacher, then he/she needs to be identified as such. Are you afraid that doing so is stepping on their toes or the toes of their followers? Paul certainly did consider that to be a problem - again, he said to let them be eternally condemned! And yet you chastise me for just calling them what they are - I never condemned them eternally!

And who are you to tell me that in my mind I “write them off”?!? Are you now judging my heart? Identifying them and warning against them is not “writing them off.” It is turning them over to Satan, as Paul did with the man identified in 1 Cor. 5 - or are you saying Paul also wrote the man off?

I am not in a position to work with such false teachers for reconciliation, and those who I have contacted refuse correction. That leaves me with just being able to expose them, warn against them, and pray that they will mend their ways.

Perhaps part of your problem is that people you follow are addressed as false teachers? I notice you follow Perry Noble’s blog - is that to see what he’s up to or because you like him? I guess the latter, because if you just wanted to see what he was up to, you wouldn’t post it as one you follow, leading others to follow his false teachings.

You have already tipped your hand when you write against apologetics ministries such as mine, attacking us as “heresy hunters” - a pejorative term which has amusingly been taken as a symbol of pride by those of us who work to protect the flock. But we don’t have to hunt heresy - it is everywhere, just like spider webs are everywhere.

Emily said...

Thank you for your post, Glenn.

On the topic of (non-organic) depression, I do think you are spot-on. I am one who suffers (or rather, succumbs) to that from time to time, and once I've come through the other end, I recognize it as something self-centered. It takes focus off of God, and puts it onto self. Sometimes it feels out of control, and again, I have let myself get that way, to the point of self-injury. Which while I fight those kind of urges, I do still call it sinful to engage in such activity. Once upon a time, I had to use medication to control what has been diagnosed as PTSD and related anxiety, but I stopped using it about two years back. I didn't think I could handle life without it, thinking I needed my medication, but God Himself has gotten me through.

I would still like a good Biblical counsellor for the bouts of depression (related to the PTSD from abuse), but I don't think I want to go back to mediacation or a regular psychiatrist, ever. I've considered it, when I get to very low points, but then, like I said earlier, I come out the other side, recognizing that it's God I need, that He has sustained me and healed me in more ways than I ever thought possible. And to be honest, I am hopelessly selfish without Him, so it's no wonder if I let myself get too depressed/anxious that the focus becomes "me" instead of "Him." It's always Him that gets me out of the pit, not me.


As for the topic of heresy hunting that came up in the comments, I have only this to say: "Well said, Glenn."